Gomez919 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) The purpose of this document is to hopefully equip both up-and-coming, and existing medics with a greater understanding of how blood pressure can be used in the treatment and triage of players. The document is shown in the image below, a PDF is available via the link at the bottom of the post. The first page shows a simple flow chart, providing a general template for the process of treating a patient, with the focus on determining what it will take to rouse an unconscious patient and establishing if the unconsciousness is due to pain or blood loss. The second page provides a brief outline to the purpose of the chart, abbreviations used and some disclaimers. As well as several tables which outline the following: • Different events which can occur following an injury and the associated blood pressure values. • Average values for the increase/decrease of blood pressure from morphine and epinephrine. • Range of values for the increase/decrease of heart rate from morphine and epinephrine. • Average values for the increase in blood pressure from the administration of fluids. • Corresponding ranges for blood pressure and heart rate, relating to the information non-medics receive from observations. If anyone has any questions regarding any aspects of this, then please feel free to get in touch, or regarding anything they may wish to see in the future. Link for PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/feo57eu5thahtz9/FK BP.pdf?dl=0 Edited April 20, 2019 by Gomez919 Replacement of PDF link 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gditz Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Guide approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 10/10 guide, even though I cont believe anyone could take BP as a CLS. That shit is reeeally hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutze Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) You are focussing too much on blood pressure IMO, even linking effects and procedures to it that it only affects indirectly. The "Lost a lot of blood" warning is just based on remaining blood volume (90% of seven liters). Heart rate changes through drugs are based on prior heartrate, with blood pressure changes being derived instead of direct. For unconsciousness through blood and related effects: Cardiac output is based on heart rate and blood volume. Blood pressure is based on cardiac output and viscosity (presence of morphine). Heart rate below 10 bpm or systolic pressure below 30 cause unconsciousness delayed by 10-30 seconds. Blood volume below 60% has a 10% chance every second to cause unconsciousness, delayed by 15-35 seconds (and below 30% is immediate death). Takeaways: A patient unconscious from low blood is guaranteed to wake up from 2.1 liters of IV. A living patient is not missing more than 4.9 liters. A patient with no morphine in the system and (systolic pressure / 23) - (heart rate / 80) > 2 is not unconscious from bloodloss (except for, you know, rounding errors). Or you just go by "This guy did not go unconscious immediately after getting hit, or should have gotten back up by now". Edited March 9, 2019 by Blutze 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gditz Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 22:36, Blutze said: You are focussing too much on blood pressure IMO, even linking effects and procedures to it that it only affects indirectly. The "Lost a lot of blood" warning is just based on remaining blood volume (90% of seven liters). Heart rate changes through drugs are based on prior heartrate, with blood pressure changes being derived instead of direct. For unconsciousness through blood and related effects: Cardiac output is based on heart rate and blood volume. Blood pressure is based on cardiac output and viscosity (presence of morphine). Heart rate below 10 bps or systolic pressure below 30 cause unconsciousness delayed by 10-30 seconds. Blood volume below 60% has a 10% chance every second to cause unconsciousness, delayed by 15-35 seconds (and below 30% is immediate death). Takeaways: A patient unconscious from low blood is guaranteed to wake up from 2.1 liters of IV. A living patient is not missing more than 4.9 liters. A patient with no morphine in the system and (systolic pressure / 23) - (heart rate / 80) > 2 is not unconscious from bloodloss (except for, you know, rounding errors). Or you just go by "This guy did not go unconscious immediately after getting hit, or should have gotten back up by now". Then main issue on trying to use blood volume cut-offs for death, unconsciousness and waking-up times is that trying to even estimate how much blood a player themselves have at any time is near impossible. As soon as a player takes on a wound, the blood starts pouring out and they would in theory have to keep continuous track of all their wounds while fighting off other enemies. Now complicate it even further for a medic who arrives at an unconscious patient who cannot tell them how much blood they've lost. It would be impossibe to accurately tell how much blood they've lost. It simply isn't a feasible method of approach to try and guestimate how much blood a person has lost. The "Has lost a lot of blood" text is useful as an indicator, similar to how BP is also a valuable source of information. In conclusion, a good medic tries to use any and all information available to them and BP is a very useful one. The flow chart is very good since it is easy to follow and will return any, if not all patients, to combat status in a fast and reliable fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutze Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 13 hours ago, Gditz said: estimate how much blood a player themselves have at any time is near impossible Which is why I phrased my takeaways as limits. Can't get clearer readings than that. The flowchart being based solely on blood pressure is an issue because even just a few epinephrines can increase it without helping you with the 60% volume condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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